Many thanks for new price which i hadn’t seen ahead of
I’m not sure should you have entry to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or otherwise not, because it was written because a resource getting Us americans having colonial forefathers regarding Plantagenet lineage. He offers among his proofs you to definitely Joanna is actually the fresh new mom of Gwladus Ddu the reality that Llewelyn offered this new features of Knighton and you may Norton castles in the Shropshire so you can Ralph Mortimer whenever the guy and Gwladus were married. It would have been unlawful to possess Llewelyn provide Joanna’s property so you can an enthusiastic illegitimate daughter (or person who was not an infant away from Joanna). The fresh properties from Norton and you will Knighton remained regarding the Mortimer family after that. The fresh quotation is actually, “Whenever the fresh new King promote Home to one having a great lady regarding his kindred in the frank relationships, and also the lady dyeth versus issue, the person in the Leaders case will not wait to have their lives, because the lady was the cause of the brand new present.” This basically means, the brand new features will have reverted back once again to the crown prior to it might have been made available to an infant who was not Joanna’s.
Hello, Marilyn, I did not have access to the Plantaganet Origins by Doug Richardson, however, did have access to the countless conversations involving him and you can their theories with other genealogists (specific to have your, but some and additionally up against). I think, once i stated in my earlier report, one to what shifts it for me(Joanna being the mother regarding Gwladus), is the import of the features your explore so you’re able to Ralph de- Mortimer through to their ed two of its pupils ‘John’ and you may ‘Joan.’ I can not that is amazing in the event the Gwladus had been the brand new ded their particular college students ergo. Regardless of the objections within eminent genealogists We mention more than, there is a standard consensus you to definitely Gwladus Ddu shall be relatively recognized as the fresh new child out-of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth of the Joanna, daughter most attractive dutch women (next legitimised) from John, King away from The united kingdomt. Let me simply take that it opportunity to go along with Sharon (during the a contact in my experience) one to Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian are by the Tangwystyl and not Joanna, and therefore being bloodstream sister so you can Gruffudd. We foot which partially for the today’s record utilized in ‘Regal or other Historical characters Illustrative of your own rule out-of Henry 111,’ modified from the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol 1. To the profiles five-hundred-503 is the transcript out-of a unique page old Marshall, Earl regarding Pembroke, to help you King Henry 111. Within this page, Marshall discusses their siege of your castles from Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. He listings people the guy found in the castle O’Realy whenever it surrendered, it included: “…uxor Wilelmi de- Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre et matre, et uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, ainsi que mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I am told that this means that you will find right here Gwenllian, daughter off Prince llywelyn, which appears to be entitled ‘cousin of Gruffudd.’ As you may know Gruffudd are the fresh new illegitimate young buck from Llywelyn, it is taken that ‘de- patre ainsi que matre’ implies that Gwenllian and you can Gruffudd was basically complete bloodstream sis and you may sis. Got Gwenllian become Joanna’s daughter hence King Henry’s niece, definitely Marshall will have mentioned thereon truth? That it incapacity regarding de Lacy’s wife as king’s niece, was drawn as close particular proof one to Gwenllian wasn’t the brand new daughter of your king’s sis Joanna.
These types of qualities was section of Joanna’s maritagium from their unique dad Queen John
Ken: Thank you for you to regard to Gwenllian. I’m not a professional genealogist, but I really do a lot of lookup without any help lines. In my opinion a few of the “pros” are incredibly jealous and you can aggravated of each most other (about evidently ways in certain of everything they post). Discover points that we are simply not probably see with full confidence in the members of the latest MA as they don’t keep public information instance we would today, thus genealogists and you will historians have to use their finest wisdom from inside the sorting something out. In fact, vital records was a fairly “new” build – of numerous states in the usa don’t keep records out-of births and you can deaths until the early 1900’s. We get into several descent societies where I’ve had in order to prove eleven or twelve generations, and you can trust me it is hard. And so i most appreciate the challenge off contrasting MA ancestors. (And also the sad material is the fact that the records that are available toward MA was of one’s royalty and you will nobility – nothing anyway to the preferred somebody).