The new genealogists all of the consider it tall one to Nicholas’ spouse Clementia try incorporated right here because, around normal situations, she’d not stated. When Susanna at particular later on day got out to an alternate protector, the brand new partner of that guardian was not said.
This will imply that Queen John spent sometime truth be told there and you may the possibility of a keen amorous liaison which have Clementia can be found
Here are some is a theory state-of-the-art by the specific eminent genealogists, however it is fair to say that the fresh findings try hotly competitive!
Which theory causes a delightful and you will curious ‘twist’ regarding tale away from Joanna, which could desire fans of HBD!
At first glance, there is absolutely nothing to strongly recommend one connection within hostage, Susanna out of Wales and you will Clementia, partner regarding Nicholas de- Verdun. not, sensation of certain genealogists which have foreign hostages, such as for example youths, has been that they have been commonly set with family relations, if any was indeed offered.
Jumping toward 1236, there was an entrance on Tewkesbury annals hence applies to Joanna’s mother because “Queen Clemencie!” It checks out simply:
Now, we know that mother away from Joanna was called Clementia (Clemence?
In cases like this the new monk is actually evidently indulging when you look at the medieval legalism. Before their unique demise, Joanna ended up being legitimised because of the Pope. On such basis as you to legitimisation, new Tewksbury monk plainly grabbed it up on himself to raise Joanna’s mommy towards the updates regarding Queen, as if their mom ended up being King John’s spouse! It is a fact although not, one to King John and you will Clementia were never hitched. By making reference to Joanna’s mother given that “Queen” Clementia, the newest monk exactly who filed Joanna’s dying are appearing their tall esteem to have Joanna, although not attempting to alter the true facts.
As for the label regarding Clementia de Verdun, Paget means that she was the new child of Roger de Dauntsey, regarding Wiltshire. You to definitely genealogist considers they tall one to Clementia hailed away from Wiltshire because the they have pointed out that King John got a strong accessory to help you you to county, it as being the domestic away from his most trusted allies, the Longespee, ilies and Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists discovered your title ‘Clementia’ is very uncommon certainly English noblewomen in the period. In one single table out-of ladies names which was gathered, there have been simply a few situations of the title “Clementia” out of all in all, 1407 ladies in the fresh test! The reality that people titled Clementia would be associated with the Susanna is tall.
Therefore! Evidence is actually effective, not definitive, you to inside 1228, Susanna, as the good hostage, was given off to new care of her maternal granny, today spouse out-of Nicholas de- Verdun!!
The fresh new Scottish genealogists of your own MacDuffs’ hold you to Susanna ferch Llywelyn came into this world 1214 in Gwynnedd, Wales and you can died c. 1259 during the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife into the 1230 and had a couple children: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl regarding Fife, born 1245, passed away 1270 and you may MacDuff MacDuff born 1247.
Needless to say, there are counter objections to all the so it supposition! Queen John had of several mistresses and maybe possibly 7 illegitimate pupils. The mother off Joanna could have been born circa 1172 and you may marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself was born circa 1191 (14 yrs . old at the time of their unique matrimony in order to Llywelyn). Rohese, new recognized genuine child out of Nicholas de Verdun along with his wife Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. In the event that Clementia try the mother away from Joanna, she would come into their unique later 30’s, very early 40’s disse detaljene when giving birth in order to Rohese! Maybe not hopeless, particular state, however, unlikely.