The new genealogists all the contemplate it extreme you to definitely Nicholas’ spouse Clementia was integrated here because the, under normal circumstances, she would not be said. Whenever Susanna on particular after day was given out over another type of protector, this new partner of these guardian was not said.
This would indicate that Queen John spent some time there and you can the potential for an amorous liaison that have Clementia is available
Here are some let me reveal a concept cutting-edge by particular eminent genealogists, however it is fair to state that the fresh findings try hotly contested!
That it concept causes a wonderful and you may curious ‘twist’ about tale off Joanna, that may appeal admirers of HBD!
On the surface, there is nothing to suggest one partnership involving the hostage, Susanna from Wales and Clementia, wife out-of Nicholas de Verdun. not, the feel of particular genealogists having foreign hostages, such as for example youngsters, might have been which they had been commonly place having members of the family, if any were available.
Bouncing toward 1236, there was an entry in the Tewkesbury annals which single caribbean women dating sites relates to Joanna’s mommy as “Queen Clemencie!” They checks out to some extent:
Now, we know the mom off Joanna try entitled Clementia (Clemence?
In this situation the latest monk is evidently indulging in gothic legalism. Prior to their demise, Joanna was actually legitimised of the Pope. Based on you to definitely legitimisation, the Tewksbury monk obviously grabbed it up on themselves to raise Joanna’s mother on condition off King, as if their particular mommy was Queen John’s wife! It is a fact however, one Queen John and you may Clementia was in fact never ever married. Of the discussing Joanna’s mommy because “Queen” Clementia, the new monk whom filed Joanna’s demise is indicating their significant respect having Joanna, yet not trying to change the true facts.
When it comes to term out of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget suggests that she try brand new daughter out-of Roger de Dauntsey, of Wiltshire. That genealogist takes into account they extreme you to Clementia acclaimed of Wiltshire since he’s got noticed that King John got a powerful attachment so you can that condition, they as being the home from their safest allies, brand new Longespee, ilies and you may Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists found your title ‘Clementia’ is very rare one of English noblewomen from the period. In one single dining table away from ladies’ labels that has been compiled, there had been merely one or two situations of your name “Clementia” out-of a maximum of 1407 ladies in the latest take to! The truth that anyone called Clementia could well be of Susanna represents significant.
Very! Evidence try suggestive, but not definitive, one during the 1228, Susanna, since the a great hostage, received out to brand new care of her maternal grandmother, today wife of Nicholas de- Verdun!!
This new Scottish genealogists of MacDuffs’ keep you to definitely Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 for the Gwynnedd, Wales and you will passed away c. 1259 inside Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She hitched Malcolm MacDuff, Earl from Fife inside 1230 together with a few college students: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl out of Fife, born 1245, died 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff born 1247.
Without a doubt, you’ll find counter arguments to all or any that it supposition! King John had many mistresses and perhaps possibly eight illegitimate people. The caretaker regarding Joanna might have been born circa 1172 and you may marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself was born circa 1191 (fourteen years old in the course of their relationship so you’re able to Llywelyn). Rohese, the latest identified genuine daughter away from Nicholas de Verdun and his partner Clementia was born circa 1210-1213. In the event that Clementia is actually the caretaker away from Joanna, she’d have their particular late 30’s, very early 40’s when having a baby in order to Rohese! Maybe not hopeless, specific say, but improbable.